College of Science

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Introduction:

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Transcript:

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David Pace:

Hi, my name is David Pace and this is Pace yourself, a University of Utah College of Science Podcast on wellness. Today, we’re talking about physical strength and health through resistance training and other related components of physical wellness. Our guest today is Jordan Marks a personal trainer at the Salt Lake Sports Center adjacent to the University of Utah here, Jordan has a Bachelor of Science in Kinesiology from UMass Amherst, and he’s worked as a personal trainer for 14 years. Welcome Jordan, thank you. 

 

Jordan Marks:

Thank you for having me, David.

 

David Pace:

It’s really nice to have you here. So I actually met you, as you know, I don’t have to tell you this, but I’m telling my audience when I was working out of the Salt Lake complex, sports complex, and so in order to audition you, I was actually tracking you around the building, listening to you to make sure that you that Boston accent of yours wasn’t

 

Jordan Marks:

Yeah try to subdue it a little bit 

 

David Pace:

Yeah. But no, I was impressed with the work that you were doing with a variety of people there, and over the months that I noticed that your services were available, so I thought that you would be a good candidate for us to talk about wellness. Just a little background. We have been doing this for about a year and a half, and the first year we talked about the different dimensions of wellness as established by the National Institutes of Health and physical wellness is, of course, prominent in that and it was also the easiest one to start out with, because everybody wants to get fit and everybody wants to feel good physically. So let’s talk a little bit. First off, can you tell me what degree in kinesiology entails and how you ended up as a personal trainer? 

 

Jordan Marks:

Yeah, so kinesiology, or exercise science, is basically the study of movement. I kind of got into that because they really feel the engineering was for me and some of the arts, arts weren’t really my path. So I got into it, because I kind of grew up my whole life playing sports and being outside and active. So it kind of seemed like a good segue into exercise science. My plan originally was to go to school for physical therapy, where, when I graduated, right before I graduated, I worked as an aide in a physical therapy office where we worked with all kinds of people, rehabbing shoulders, knees, all that kind of stuff. But it got a little tedious for me. I feel like it was, you know, a lot of people, if they’re young and able, they’re there to fix a shoulder, and the second you finish those shoulder exercises, and they’re good, they’re discharged. You don’t do anything else with them. You’re not working the core, working the legs. And then a lot of people, if they’re older, don’t necessarily want to be there. They don’t want to do these exercises. So it can be, it can be kind of, I don’t know, it’s discouraging. When you know they don’t seem to getting better, they’re getting annoyed with you. It’s they don’t want to do this stuff. So I kind of got a side job, personal training at a local gym, where some of the physical therapy, really helped. I could learn how to help someone with shoulder issues, knee issues, but in the meantime, work the core. Work the legs, work the other muscles that they wanted to do to get stronger on top of rehabbing that specific thing. So kind of fell into the personal training, and really liked the ability to make my own hours and not be as much of a nine to five as some of the physical therapy was, and a lot of physical therapy was also the paperwork. You know, a lot of it is based off your insurance. Is your insurance gonna cover this? Or am I discharged because I don’t have enough insurance? And you’re filling out a lot of paperwork, and you don’t quite have that with the personal training, where you can kind of get a lot of people who are coming because they want to, so that helps. 

 

David Pace:

You’re already, they’re already at second base

 

Jordan Marks:

Exactly, a little bit of motivation. It’s not so much a force because they can’t walk, or they can’t they have a frozen shoulder or something.

 

David Pace:

Although I did notice that you work with elderly folks that maybe have been discharged from physical therapy. So we’ll talk about that in a minute. So just to kind of lay the groundwork here, what are the true what are the benefits of resistance training? And we could talk more than resistance training, but how does it compare to other forms of physical training and fitness, for example, like cardio.

 

Jordan Marks:

Resistance training is extremely important for a lot of reasons. You know, people come to the gym. A lot of come because it’s I want to gain muscle or lose weight, but there’s so many benefits. Especially once you start picking up weights that people can overlook. So they don’t always, uh, they don’t always think about the, you know, endorphin release when you leave the gym. You know, you don’t have people come in saying, I’m here to increase my mitochondria density. That’s something that resistance training does for you. You know, the powerhouse of yourself, the powerhouse of your cell, is mitochondria, but there’s so many other benefits for balance, for all these things that we all need as we as we age and get older, a lot of people, you know, associate cardio. Cardio is great. It’s great for your heart, great for the lungs. But a lot of people associate that with, I’m going to do cardio because I want to lose weight. Well, you know, you hop on a machine. I don’t know how, you would use your machines, but if you hop on and have a great workout and burn 1000 calories. That’s, that’s a pretty good workout. It’s 3500 calories to burn one pound of fat. Just to put that in perspective of someone on a cardio machine all day, or for an hour, I should say, and it’s, they get off and it kind of stops. It’s, yeah, great for your heart, but if you’re trying to lose fat or gain muscle, you’re it’s not necessarily  the end all be all that everyone thinks it is. So when you’re lifting weights, getting stronger, working the muscles, you’re burning a lot more calories. And then the next day, when you’re sore and those muscles are rebuilding, you’re continuing to burn calories. Then once you have the muscle, muscle burns calories. So the resistance training can really help with kind of just be a big part of the whole package deal, which is honestly eating, resistance training, and then cardio is kind of a good cherry on top that you can throw in if some people don’t have the time, you know, some people associate that cardio with, I gotta be for an hour on that elliptical, on that treadmill, on that row machine 

David Pace: 

In the proper garb, clothing. So it’s a retail opportunity. 

 

Jordan Marks:

Yeah, exactly, too yeah the Lulu Lemon everywhere. Yeah, spend a lot of money for the nice clothes. Yeah, you see my nice sweats, the viewer can’t but there’s holes in my sweat pants. 

 

David Pace:

So lest we forget it, it’s also good for bone density, yes, and not necessarily. Cardio is not necessarily something that’s premium for that. 

 

Jordan Marks:

Cardio can still be, uh, when you you need, you need, um, the correct word here, you need them, weight bearing compression. So when you run, that’s weight bearing compression. Okay, basically, what happens when you’re running, um, you’re putting a little extra weight into your legs. And what happens is the bones, your femur, your TIB, your fib, they kind of bend a little bit as you run because of the extra pressure, and your body goes, Oh, no, the bones bending send calcium helps your bones become stronger, and that is what you do get a lot more in resistance training, even saying as basic as you know, exercise, like a farmer’s carry that’s walking with weight, that’s a little less impact through the joints, but the bones are getting that same benefit. Because if you’re walking with a pair of 10 pound dumbbells, every step you take is going to be 10, 20 pounds heavier, those bones are going to that same thing of someone that’s running. But as far as osteoporosis on an elliptical or a row machine, or swimming, all great cardio exercises that helps the joints, because it’s, it’s more of a flowing you get away from that weight-bearing compression and get into more of a gliding motion. That’s, again, better for your joints, steps away a little bit from the bone density. 

 

David Pace:

So it’s funny, we should be talking about resistance training, because I had my, I just changed doctors, my primary care physician, and went in to see her, actually just in December, and I was really proud of the fact that I was able to tell her that I swim a mile every week at least once. Hurrah for Dave. And she looked at me, and she’s, you know, young enough to be my daughter at this point, but she looked at me, and she said, you need to do resistance training that’s more important than your swimming at this point in your 63- year-old life. And I was like, kind of pouting about that, because I wanted her to say, wow, you’re swimming a full mile. Good for you, you know, what’s your intervals? And are you doing the flip turn? And blah, blah, blah. So I’ve taken her up on that, you know, because she was, she was looking at my weight, of course. And.

 

Jordan Marks:

Um, but you know, the whole BMI thing, So BMI doesn’t really take into account muscle, muscle density, because it’s basically your height and your weight, yeah. So they can take a running back in the NFL and say he’s obese, yeah, because he’s, you know, 

 

David Pace:

I was told I was obese, 

 

Jordan Marks:

510, 220, you know, that’s that, you know, they probably consider that obese, and that’s their some of the best shape of their life because of the muscle. So, um, so, yeah, your um calipers can be what’s called a skin fold test. Yeah, that’s a one where you pinch certain sites on the body. Um, still, a good one, still room for error. There’s a lot of different ones. One of the best, maybe the university here has it, is that can be like a hydrostatic weighing tank. That’s one that really takes away, um, room for error, because you’re, you’re basically like submerged, you know. So it’s, it’s not … the pinching. I used to do that, and when I was in college. So there’s better options. But yeah, to go back to the original thing, the BMI doesn’t it’s good for the sedentary regular population, because it kind of, if you’re just average guy coming off the street, don’t do much workouts or exercise too much. It can probably give you a pretty good indicator of, hey, I weigh this much, and I’m, yeah, you know, that’s probably not very healthy. Or you can also be too thin. That’s, that’s another thing can be, um, you know, people can be too thin, where, internally, that going back to that bone density and that osteoporosis, especially with women who are much more prone to it, they might look fantastic with this small frame and what everyone wants to see. And it’s, it’s not the best. You know, as far as internally, their body has no fat to survive on. And it’s, it’s, yeah, not, not great, that end either. 

 

David Pace:

So there’s fat to survive on. But then getting back to muscle, muscle is a, is an engine. It’s burning. It’s, it’s metabolizing, I guess. And that’s really what you’re kind of gunning for, is more muscle mass that for the purposes of your metabolism. Is that correct? 

 

Jordan Marks:

Yep. And with if you go to the gym for a long time, or not even a long time, you start going to gym, and you put on muscle. If you put on about 10 pounds of lean muscle, you really wouldn’t notice that through your body, because that’s why it’s lean muscle. It’s much smaller than fat.  Just having 10 pounds of lean muscle added onto your body, your resting metabolic rate will burn about 3500 calories a week doing nothing. And the reason that number sounds familiar because that’s what it takes to burn one pound of fat. So that’s where it kind of comes full circle. Of you’re working out, you’re gaining that lean muscle. You’re looking better, looking more toned, looking more cut, whatever you’re going for. And in the meantime, just having that muscle is helping to burn fat on top of your metabolism and in what you burn during your workout, so a lot more calories. 

 

David Pace:

So you can not feel guilty about watching Netflix every night with a bowl of popcorn. That’s right. That’s right. So what is the advantage of having a personal trainer? What can someone expect from a personal trainer, whether it’s you or someone else in the profession? What’s the best practice and what can someone again, the question why? Why a personal trainer? 

 

Jordan Marks: 

I think one of the biggest things is just learning the correct way to do things, and having someone watch your form, watch kind of the things you’re doing, and make sure you’re doing them correctly, because sure you’ve seen this too, you go to a gym, and there’s a lot of people doing things that look dangerous. Look they might be the biggest guy in the gym or the biggest girl in the gym, but it doesn’t always mean they’re doing the right things. And it’s you see that a lot, and I see a ton at the gym of people going and just kind of spinning the wheels. The goal is to continue to get stronger while you go to the gym and make it worth your time and effort, because you already doing the hardest part, which is getting to the gym. You know, that is not, yeah, so I’m so a personal trainer, and that’s another thing that helps you with is that I’m trying to think of the right word, but that kind of you have an obligation, you know, you literally pay for a session. You know, I have a policy with my clients that I can, I can be lenient on sometimes, but it’s a kind of a 24 hour cancelation policy. So they know that. So if it’s an early morning and they wake up and, you know, they’re just not quite feeling it that day, if they weren’t coming to see me, there’s a good chance they’d blow it off. You know, but they know, hey, I already, already paid Jordan. I’m I lose this, this money, this, this time, if I, if I don’t go in and use my session, and then almost, I’d say, nine out of 10 times when they leave, they feel a lot better. You know, they come in, they do a workout, even if it might have been a day where they were a little lethargic or not feeling great. We do a good workout. We can take it easy sometimes, you know, depending if they’re really feeling that, you know, tired or whatever it is, but, um, they at least came, got the, you know, got the muscles moving, got everything loosened up, and tend to feel better when they leave. And again, there’s a, there’s a pretty good chance that if, if it was just up to them to go that day, there’s, there’s always, there’s always an easy excuse to stay in bed, especially these cold days.

 

David Pace:

Well, it does elevate your mood, your exercise. So there’s some mental wellness things going on and emotional I think that are intricately connected to what you’re doing or not doing with your body. So are you’re not a drill sergeant? 

 

Jordan Marks:

No, I try not to be. I try not to be, yeah. 

 

David Pace:

So you’re not a drill sergeant. And so what could you expect for the first time with with a personal trainer? How do you assess what someone needs? I’m sure you ask what they want to do. 

 

Jordan Marks:

That’s, that’s usually the first thing is, sit down a talk of just what’s, what are your goals? You know, that’s, that’s why it’s personal training. Everyone’s different, everyone’s got their own goals. You know, a lot of people associate, oh, they come in because New Year’s resolutions, you know, that’s always a big one. The gym gets real busy right around New Year’s. 

 

David Pace:

Thank goodness we just got out of January, right? 

 

Jordan Marks:

Well, it’s, I find that’s not always the case, because, especially for people that are coming for training, a lot of people have different, you know, goals, where some people are, you know, I am getting married. I want to look great in this time frame when my wedding is and I’m going to be in a dress, or I’m, I just had my first grandson, I want to be able to get down on the ground and play with them. And right now, my knees are aching every time I get up and down. Some people, the doctor just tells them, hey, listen, you, you know, you got high blood pressure, you got this, you got that. You really need to start to start to incorporate this kind of what you said, your doctor said, with the resistance training. 

 

David Pace:

So, uh, so it’s, did you get a kickback for that? By the way, sorry, didn’t to interrupt.

 

Jordan Marks:

 No. So yeah, it’s, uh, so it’s a little different for everyone to get in the gym, and then once they’re there, and they kind of tell me their goals a lot of times. I’ll start with a little, um, a little fitness test, little upper body, lower body, and a core exercise, just to see where they are. Some people sit there and say, Hey, I’m in the worst shape my life. And we do these tests, and they’re looking great, you know, they’re the numbers are really high for what they’re, whatever tests we’re doing, whether it’s a basic push up or a VO2 max test, which is kind of your kind of aerobic intake on a bicycle, or your breathing, basically. And then some people, it’s, you look at them, and they’re a young individual, and they just haven’t really worked out much. So the tests are like, Wow, man, you are. You know, I wouldn’t necessarily say this, but yeah, there’s some room for improvement. Let’s put it that way. 

 

So, uh, so that kind of helps get everything started. And then we just, we go from there. So it’s, uh, again, there’s always the questions of, what are your goals? Some people have always had strong legs. I’m a big hiker. I find my upper body’s kind of, um, been on the downslope for a while now, or vice versa. So everyone’s, everyone’s a little bit different with their goals. And that’s kind of what can separate a good trainer versus a bad trainers. Like any field, there’s, you know, kind of a little bit of everything, where it’s listening to the people, making sure, you know, you make sure they’re all cleared medically. You know, there’s no glaring thing from a doctor that says, “Don’t do this, don’t do that,” and then just kind of give them a good push in the right direction, help them get started. 

 

David Pace:

So it sounds like we’re talking about both the science and an art here. Part of it is interpersonal relationships, I’m sure and so it’s not that you’re not being systematic in a scientific way, as if you will, but you’re also probably just through a conversation, figuring out what’s going to help this person the most where their sticking points are maybe. Where you need to give them a little bit more aggressive push, yes, while sometimes you need to back off a little bit 

 

Jordan Marks:

Exactly, and then it’s and again, everyone’s different with that. Where I have some people I see three times a week, and they’re on that hour break from work, and from the start of the hour to the end of the hour, they’re Go, go, go. Other people love the chat. They know I moved here to, snowboard and ski. So they know, if they want to break they bring up, so how’s the snow pattern looking? And I’ll talk for several minutes, and they know they just got me a little loop, or they can catch their breath and breathe before I go. Hey, why are we not doing this exercise again? So, so everyone’s a little bit different. Yeah, with, um, some people are, are again, I see them once, once or twice a week. Other people, it’s once every other week, just to keep some refreshers in mind, and hopefully they’re doing the stuff on their own that’s, that’s the goal is to practice things like, not just with when they’re with me, but to be able to implement those at the gym, at home, or at another gym if they’re, you know, on vacation or something.

 

David Pace:

Right, so I wanted to move a little bit into geriatric fitness for obvious reasons. I’m old enough to be your father but I say that because there was a recent report… Well, the study actually came out some time ago, but it was from the University of Copenhagen, about heavy resistance training for retirement age folks, especially for their lower body, their legs. And so I just wanted to read a little bit about this “lifting heavy weights three times a week.” They’re saying “around the age of retirement could dramatically preserve your leg strength long into the later stages of life,” according to this research, and they’re saying that “people naturally lose muscle function as they get older. And experts say that faltering leg strength is a strong predictor of death,” to be perfectly blunt, in elderly people. So “previous smaller studies have suggested their resistance training, which can involve weights, body weight or resistance bands.” You haven’t talked much about bands, but I’m sure that’s part of your regimen might help prevent this from happening,” and I was surprised at how heavy they were asking people to do leg presses, like 70% of their failure rate that they wanted to do eight to 12 reps, three times, you know, three sets of that. And that I tried to do that the other day. That was hard work. But I have to say, and maybe this isn’t a question so much as a testimonial that, yeah, I felt a lot better and a lot stronger. And I and I will say this too as a confession, that I have noticed at my age that I am losing my balance. And another thing that I’ve started doing, and maybe you could talk about this—it’s probably related to some of the lighter rubber band type work that you do is the Bosu ball I do my just standing on one leg and just trying to balance on that. Explain what a Bosu ball is for our listening audience. 

 

Jordan Marks:

Bosu ball is a if you picture a big old circular exercise ball, it’s cut in half. So one side is an exercise ball, the other side’s a platform, heart, a hard platform, exactly. So, yeah, it’s a, that’s huge to kind of answer that question, or a bunch of those questions there. It’s a, yes, the strength training is incredibly important for the legs, for the whole body, to be honest. But it’s, you know, to reach that goal, that 70% [or, in the referenced study, 85% of the maximum weight the person could lift for one repetition; Each exercise in the heavy weights group involved three sets of six to 12 repetitions at between] of your body weight for, you know, eight to 12 reps, that doesn’t have to happen the first workout, you know, just for people listening, it’s something where you have these big, you know, your quads, your hamstrings, your glutes, basically your big leg muscles. They’re very strong, and they get strong quickly because they’re such big muscles. So if day one you’re you decide, hey, let’s try 50% of my body weight here. Give it a give it a go. You hopefully will be sore. That’s the goal. Feeling soreness the next day. When that soreness goes away, bump it up a little. Bump it up a little. That’s, um, the goal is to continue to up your weight. And the muscles will listen you. They’ll do that when you’re doing it two to three times a week. Like that study says there. So people are surprised where kind of what I brought up when I had a new client, when we do those tests at the beginning, one’s as basic as a wall sit. A wall sit is just sitting against the wall. You know your legs are at about 90 degrees. Works great for the quads. They just did a study about really helps with blood pressure.

That was just an article, but the whole idea was that first day I meet them, and they do that wall sit, usually within about two months, that time has nearly doubled. So them sitting against the wall for maybe 40 seconds, 50 seconds, usually when we do it again a couple weeks later, a month or two later, it’s usually closer to about two minutes or onward, because if, especially if you’re kind of sedentary, new to it. So those quads have been listening to you as you go out and do that leg press. You’re doing these lunges, you’re doing these exercises pretty routinely throughout the week. They have no choice but to get stronger. So, um, so that’s kind of touching upon the strength training and hitting those things, um, with the balance. You’re right. That’s a huge thing with, especially with older people, is losing the balance. 

Something I like to tell people to do is balancing on the one leg when they’re brushing their teeth. I find that’s a great thing that we do daily, ideally twice a day, that you don’t really have to add anything. You don’t have to go to the gym. You don’t have to do something crazy. It’s as basic as you already do this for the first 30 minutes, whatever you are brushing your teeth, stand on one leg, then stand on the other. Just practice that. And it’s as basic as you start to do that, it becomes more regular, more routine, and before you know it, the balance is that much better because all those little intrinsic muscles are firing every time you’re balancing and trying to stabilize. And then you hop on a BOSU ball or one of the discs, or just an exercise that’s single leg, and you feel that much better because it’s become part of that routine that’s kind of a big part of the exercises you want the routine of going to the gym, it’s not necessarily the same routine every time. You know, that’s why it’s good to mix up exercises and do things. 

 

David Pace:

And personal trainer can help you do exactly yes, they can see maybe that you’re leveling or plateauing off and that you need to shake it up a little bit 

 

Jordan Marks:

And just keeps it interesting. You know, it’s the gym. Can be everyone sits there, let me, let me, plank. Planks are great for the core, but man, are they boring. You know, you sit there so you can show them 4,5,6, different forms of plank or other core exercises that keep it interesting. Where, that’s what I try to give to my clients, is kind of a plethora of exercises, so it when they look in their book that I have for them. It’s, it’s never stale. It can always be, hey, I haven’t done this one in a while. Hey, I remember doing that. That was, I don’t use the word fun, but that was a different one. You know, yeah, something just to again, keep it, keep it interesting. 

 

David Pace:

So it’s funny that you when you were talking about those smaller, more subtle muscles firing when you’re standing on one leg on the Bosu ball. I have to say, you could all. You could actually feel the firing. And it’s like I didn’t even know I had a muscle down there, you know? Because I think, especially, you know, young men, they might go to a gym, and it’s all about the mirror muscles, right? They want the big biceps and shoulders and so forth. But I think as you get older, and I think maybe this relates to the to core health and strength, is that you realize that these smaller muscles are the ones that are helping being able to go down the stairs or up the stairs without falling over correct they are the ones that are allowing you To get down on the ground to pick up your grandchild that you were referring to. And I think those are the most interesting stories for me. And I wanted to bring up the gentleman that you mentioned last time we were there. I think you had just, were just finishing up with him. He looked like he was about my age, maybe a little older, but you said that he had, without using his name or disclosing any personal information, tell us a little bit about his story. I mean, he came to you at one point needing to lose weight, and I think you told me that he had lost up to 40 pounds, and he wasn’t any taller than I was, and he, frankly, looked great. I’d like to look like him at his age. So tell me a little bit about his story, just from a third person professional status. 

 

Jordan Marks:

So yeah, he, he and along with several other clients, which is great to be able to say there’s several like this, just someone that takes the kind of, I guess it’s you want to exercise in the workouts become a way of life. That’s kind of the goal. And a lot of times it does for these people, for a lot of these people, in his case, where when you’re working out and you’re feeling good, when you leave the gym, you you feel good. You don’t want to go home and necessarily “maul” a pizza, because in your head, you’re like, I’ve already started the day so well, you know, I’ve been working out feeling good. So he really changed a lot of his eating habits. I don’t always like using the word diet, because that a lot of times you feel like you’re eating, like tree bark or something like that. It’s a lot of it’s just moderation, you know, making eating a little more moderation, and picking and choosing, maybe the water over the soda, things like that. In his case, it was a lot of eating. And then I see him twice a week to make sure that he’s getting a good workout when he’s with me. And then he likes to come in about two times on his own. So went from really, you know, his whole life and then retiring to being like, you know, hey, I was in an office most of my life. It’s time to change this. And now the, you know, for a lot of people at this gym, not just him, this is at a retirement habit, which is a great one, you know, it’s, I see a lot of these people daily. Some even come back in the afternoon. There’s days I’m there for 10 clients, and I’ll see someone at seven the morning, and I see him at four in the afternoon.

 

And it’s a great hobby to have, you know, that’s kind of the biggest goal for a lot of people. Is, you want to enjoy the stuff you’re doing, whether it’s, again, you guys mentioned, or, I don’t know if we do, but the ice down there, there’s a figure skating down there [at the Salt Lake Sports Complex], and there’s a hockey and if you enjoy skating, go do that. If you know, whatever it is you enjoy, the goal is to get into that routine and enjoy it, and hopefully it’s something active. And you know, people ask, what’s the best cardio piece of a cardio machine to get from a house. It’s the one you’ll use. You know, if you don’t make a treadmill, don’t buy a treadmill. It’s going to become a coat hanger. You know, if you enjoy the row machine, get a row machine for your house. It doesn’t matter how weird or potentially impractical it might seem in the house. If you enjoy it and you’re going to use it in front of the TV or in the morning, that’s what’s going to keep you moving. And ideally, that segues the rest of it, where, then the moving leads to feeling better. Feeling better tends to mean you want to eat a little bit healthier, eat a little bit healthier . . . 

 

David Pace:

Drink less. 

 

Jordan Marks:

Exactly, and it kind of all clicks together. Where, again, it’s really lifestyle change. And that’s what he essentially went through, was it didn’t drop off overnight. When you first pick up weights, your body reacts pretty quickly with losing water weight and gaining some muscle, because it’s all new, yeah. So it does take a good, you have to continue with it. But, you know, that’s the goal. Is making it something that you enjoy, hopefully, and do daily in one form or another. 

 

David Pace:

Yeah, excellent. Well, I’m really inspired by what you’re saying, and I think that most people want to hear that this is a life-changing experience, if you make it that way, and I think it’s also a social experience for a lot of people. People show up at that complex, and I’m sure a lot of gyms, because they want to be around other people. They have conversations, they make friends.

 

But I guess the takeaway here, Jordan, is that you’re kind of a coach, you’re kind of a spiritual advisor, you’re kind of not a drill sergeant, but you can be challenging at times, and that that’s all good.

 

So again, our guest has been Jordan Marks. He’s a personal trainer at the Salt Lake Sports Center adjacent to the University of Utah. Thank you so much for being with us, and we’ll see you back at the gym.

 

Jordan Marks:

Yeah, thank you very much. See you there. 

 

David Pace:

 All right. Cheers.